Most French see Islam too influential in society: poll

An increasing majority of people in France believe Islam plays too influential a role in their society and almost half see Muslims as a threat to their national identity, according to a poll published on Thursday.

The survey by pollster Ifop in Le Figaro newspaper showed that 60 percent of people believed that Islam was "too important" in France in terms of its influence and visibility, up from 55 percent two years ago.

It found that 43 percent of respondents considered the presence of the Muslim community as a threat to their national identity, compared with just 17 percent who said it enriched society. Forty percent of those questioned were indifferent to the presence of Islam, Le Figaro said. [Reuters] Read more

Most Republicans think west and Islam are in fundamental conflict, poll finds

An overwhelming majority of Republican voters in the United States regard the west and Islam as being embroiled in "a fundamental conflict which only one side can win", according to new YouGov-Cambridge polling seen exclusively by the Guardian.

.... Opinion was reasonably evenly split on both sides of the Atlantic, and indeed somewhat more tolerant in the United States. Overall, Americans rejected the view of a fundamental clash of cultures that can only have one winner – only 39% adopted this view, against 47% who believe that "it is possible for the west and Muslims to coexist in peace".

In Britain, by contrast, the respective figures were 43% and 41%, suggesting that British opinion towards Islam is somewhat more hostile overall. [guardian.co.uk] Read more

Voters more likely to back an anti-Muslim party than reject it – poll

.... In addition, 37% admitted that they would be more likely to support a political party that promised to reduce the number of Muslims in Britain and the presence of Islam in society, compared with 23% who said it would make them less likely.

Matthew Goodwin of the Extremis Project, an independent group monitoring extremism and terrorism that commissioned the research, said that, although Britain lacked a successful extremist political party, much of the public was susceptible to far-right ideology.

He said: "The results clearly point towards enduring public anxieties over the performance of mainstream political and business elites, immigration and also the role of Muslims and Islam in society." [guardian.co.uk] Read more

Has multiculturalism failed in the UK?

.... It also shows that only one fifth of Muslims would support a proposal of sharia law in Britain. Yes, critics may worry it is this high, and we can't deny that some support for separatism does exist, but similarly we can't deny that some white British people support ethnic exclusionism.

From these results it would seem the characterisation of minorities as living separate lives, rejecting British values and integration into British society is, to put it mildly, a slur on those British citizens.

[A COMMENT] One in five Muslims across the board. Imagine what it’s like in Muslim areas. And you think there isn’t a problem. You are living in cloud-cuckoo land! [Guardian Cif] Read more

Further Information

This article references several surveys.

(1) The 2007 England and Wales citizenship survey

(2) The 2010 Ethnic Minority British Election Survey (EMBES)

EMBES is primarily concerned with political party preference, vote choice in 2010, attitudes towards the main party leaders and so forth – but also includes questions on topics such as language fluency, perceptions of discrimination in different fields, cultural orientations, social relationships and social capital and a small number of religious items were included in the questionnaire.

(3) The 2012 Ethnic Minority British Election Survey (EMBES) which has not been published yet. This is the survey which finds “one fifth of Muslims would support a proposal of sharia law in Britain”.

The World's Muslims: Unity and Diversity

The survey, which involved more than 38,000 face-to-face interviews in over 80 languages, finds that in addition to the widespread conviction that there is only one God and that Muhammad is His Prophet, large percentages of Muslims around the world share other articles of faith, including belief in angels, heaven, hell and fate (or predestination).

While there is broad agreement on the core tenets of Islam, however, Muslims across the 39 countries and territories surveyed differ significantly in their levels of religious commitment, openness to multiple interpretations of their faith and acceptance of various sects and movements. [The Pew Forum] Read more

And

Pew Research Releases Telling Survey of World's Muslims

.... The results, however, show a high level of agreement about one of the most debated issues concerning Islam: Whether Muslims believe Islamic teaching is subject to various “interpretations” or only one.

As Islamic teaching is derived from the Qur’an, the Sira, and the ahadith (which together are the main sources for Sharia, or Islamic law), in essence this was a question about Muslim beliefs about the fundamentals of their faith.

.... According to the Pew survey results, a majority (more than 50%) of Muslims in 32 of 39 countries believes that “There is only one true way to interpret the teachings of my religion.” [radicalislam.org] Read more

Bad language, racism and dodgy votes at the Guardian

Guardian Cif had a field day the other week running several articles highlighting the BTL abuse thrown at Muslim writers and journalists. The first was by Mehdi Hasan who asked “who will stand with me” against this unwarranted hatred.

He was quickly answered by Jonathan Freedland in his article “I stand with Mehdi Hasan against the torrent of Islamophobic abuse” and added “By all means disagree with me below the line. But no one should have to put up with vile racism and bigotry”

Freedland’s view can be summarised by this passage:

... it is racism, of the crudest kind. That last quotation is the easiest example [Hasan was told "Get out of my country, goatfucker"], but the subtler ones are not much better. They can be confusing, because they often dress up in progressive, Guardian-friendly garb – slamming Islam as oppressive of gay and women's rights, for example – but the thick layer of bigotry is visible all the same. Call it progressives' prejudice.

His article attracted 885 reader comments (this is a high number even for Cif) and the one with the greatest number of reader recommends (a massive 4407) fully supports him. It has even been awarded the accolade “Guardian pick”. It says:

“The attraction of Islamophobia to bigots is that it provides them with 'plausible deniability', i.e. despite the fact that most Muslims are non-White, bigots can still claim that their hatred has nothing to do with racism, because Islam is a religion and not a race.

Whenever someone scratches the surface when it comes to groups like the EDL and BNP, beneath the Islamophobic exterior, there is often a racist motivation. If most Muslims were Anglo-Saxon, I doubt that Islamophobia would hold much appeal for the likes of the EDL and the BNP”. [islamophobiasucks (4407 votes) 10 July 2012 1:33PM]

No doubt some White people can pursue their hatred of non-Whites by attacking some other characteristic not to do with colour. But who are they, these bigots?

How did Freedland himself fare in his robust defence of Muslim fellow writers? Did he, in fact, attract comments from these bigots and was he in his turn subjected to this rampant BTL abuse? He must have stood out in their eyes as just as bad.

The comment critical of Freedland with the highest number of recommends (a lowly 1590 compared with the Guardian pick quoted above), says:

“I feel what you've written is very patronising. You seem to find it unacceptable that people can have strong views about Islam which in my opinion are understandable. For instance you state that critics of Hasan and Islam use language that ' they often dress up in progressive, Guardian-friendly garb'. But perhaps these people really are progressive but do not find Islam to be, probably because it isn't.

I found very little of the 'language and imagery so vile' that you spoke and I read them all, the moderator removes most such things and others which are not offensive anyway so not sure what you're referring to as they weren't there.

I don't know Jonathon I really don't know why you're so obsessed with calling anyone a racist who objects to the obvious unpleasantness of this religion. Also you may accept Hasan's explanation of his deeply offensive comments but that doesn't mean everyone else has to.

Let me add my own brief explanation of myself so as not to be labelled racist/fascist or whatever term is being used at present. My Grandfather came to UK from Germany (guess why?). My Grandmother is from a family of Irish Gypsys (usually referred to as Pikeys). My wife is the daughter of immigrants from Bangalore. I could go on …” [Stowlawn (1590 votes) 1st 10 July 2012 1:41PM]

The man who wrote this is not a bigot. He is not a racist. In fact, it is very hard to find any measure of bigotry or racism in the comments critical of Freedland (and indeed in the critical comments on the Mehdi Hasan article which set this ball rolling).

There are a good number that might have been better worded but then we don’t all possess the literary skills of a Guardian journalist such as Freedland who can produce brilliant non-bigoted phrases such as “.... the thick layer of bigotry is visible all the same. Call it progressives' prejudice.“

The fact is, despite the “Guardian pick” comment quoted above with its massive 4407 recommends, the great majority of Guardian Cif readers are critical of Islam and those that try to promote it, and they are not bigots or racists, and they show their disapproval without resort to abuse. The table below shows the numbers for Freedland’s article.

Analysis of first 250 published comments
Type of Comment	Readers Comments	% of comments	Readers Votes	% of votes
Critical of Mr Freedland	142	56	35608	66
Neutral/unclassifiable	55	22	4574	8
Supportive of Mr Freedland	53	21	13975	26
Total	250	100%	54157	100%

27, about one in ten, of all the commenters in the period examined had their comments removed. The only explanation given is “.... removed by a moderator because it didn't abide by our community standards”.

Typical published comments are:

“I agree that vile personal abuse is wrong, and has no place. It is a pity Mehdi Hasan has fled CIF. However, all Muslims must be able to take criticism of their belief and faith, and be prepared to uphold them intellectually, with reasoned arguments based on intelligence, detailed questioning and understanding.” [Existangst (1498 votes) 3rd 10 July 2012 1:33PM]

“.... Sorry, that sounds suspiciously like a means of dismissing any rationally argued point that happens to ask uncomfortable questions of the Islmaic faith.... “ [ToastandMarmite (1189 votes) 5th 10 July 2012 1:43PM]

And one commenter uses the f#### word!

“Muslims can quote insulting passages from their holy text which are rude about us, is apparently what you and he are saying, but we mustn't be rude about them back, is what this boils down to. I call that fooey. [southlondonerabroad (531 votes) 15th 10 July 2012 1:49PM]

“So is there a way that one can criticise the oppression of gay people or the inferior position of women in Muslim countries, or homophobic statements by high-profile Muslims in the UK, without being accused of merely "dressing up" bigotry?” [Heresiarch (167 votes) 63rd 10 July 2012 2:09PM]

I used to think I abhorred National Socialism. Now I realise I am just bigoted against Germans. [CruiskeenLawn (94 votes) 92nd 10 July 2012 2:47PM]

There is another dimension to all this. If you click rapidly enough on the recommend button you can rack up more than one recommend, even increasing the count by several votes. Anyone can fiddle the Cif readers’ recommends number.

The process is however time consuming and it takes a very dedicated hacker to increase recommends by “hundreds” on just one comment. There is also supposed to be a programme which the technically competent can use to increase recommends.

There is a question mark hanging over all the recommends both those criticising and those supporting Freedland.

The comments themselves are on firmer ground as coming up with and posting a large number of original sounding comments from different identities is a much bigger challenge.

Though that does not rule out someone sufficiently infuriated with or in admiration of Mr Freedland having a go. In the opinion of the present writer who has read the first 250 comments and scanned the rest the comments are all or very nearly all from different people.

In this particular case there is another factor.

If a line of comment is popular, many comments repeating that line will get high recommend scores, even if a few especially at the beginning of the comment period get very high scores.

Now, amazingly, the top three comments (out of 53) in support of Freedland with 4407, 2594, and 1715 recommends respectively account for 62% of all his supportive recommends. After these top three all you get are a few low 100s and lots of 10s.

In contrast, the top three comments criticising him (out of 142) with 1590, 1520, 1498, recommends respectively account for only 13% of the total recommends going against him.

Somebody or something has been getting at those top recommends in Freedland’s favour. It sticks out like a sore thumb.

It doesn’t help that the highest scoring pro-Freedland comment with 4407 recommends has been given the label “Guardian pick” and that the second highest scoring comment with 2594 recommends , published only five minutes after Freedland’s article itself and first in the stream, is by a Guardian Cif employee who comes up with this:

“Excellent point [Freedland’s remarks quoted at the top]- it's easy to spot and dismiss out and out racist comments, a few of which are highlighted above, but the subtle hate speech is just as damaging.

Has Guardian Cif finally lost the plot? [LibertyPhile]

Muslims are well-integrated in Britain – but no one seems to believe it

In Britain today there is a mismatch between how non-Muslims often perceive Muslims and how Muslims typically perceive themselves.

This disconnect is down to a tendency by non-Muslims to assume that Muslims struggle with their British identity and divided loyalties. These concerns were challenged a few days ago,in a report by the University of Essex that found Muslims actually identify with Britishness more than any other Britons.

This study is just one of several recent studies that have consistently found that Muslims in Britain express a stronger sense of belonging in Britain than their compatriots. Consider the following examples:

[A COMMENT] What do you mean "strong sense". Enough to not marry someone "back home" and of a different racial and religious group without pressure to "convert"

Problem is this loyalty to Britain appears to be a Britain of their own creation and not necessarily one others would recognize.

As for fewer white people feeling a strong sense of belonging, could that be the result of decades of Guardian lectures on how rubbish we are and how all the worlds ills started here? [Guardian Cif] Read more

Further Information

The Cif article says: “This study is just one of several recent studies that have consistently found that Muslims in Britain express a stronger sense of belonging in Britain than their compatriots. Consider the following examples:

• 83% of Muslims are proud [1] to be a British citizen, compared to 79% of the general public.
• 77% of Muslims strongly identify [2] with Britain while only 50% of the wider population do.
• 86.4% of Muslims feel they belong [3] in Britain, slightly more than the 85.9% of Christians.
• 82% of Muslims want to live in diverse and mixed neighbourhoods [4] compared to 63% of non-Muslim Britons.
• 90% of Pakistanis feel a strong sense of belonging [5] in Britain compared to 84% of white people.”

The numeric notes have been added by Islam Surveyed and signify as follows:

[1] This is a link to a Daily Mail article on a survey by Demos (2011)
The Demos survey is reviewed here: A Place for Pride (or Not) N.B. The statistic of 83% of Muslims is based on a sample of 48 Muslims!

[2] Daily Telegraph article on Gallup Coexist Study (2009)
The Gallup Coexist Study is reviewed here: The Headlines You Didn’t See

[3] Link to extract from book/report “Muslims in Britain” (2008)
Anyone who thinks there is a statistical difference between 86.4% and 85.9% doesn’t know what he is talking about!

[4] Euro-Islam.info website article on Gallup Coexist Study (2009)
See [2]

[5] Daily Telegraph article on a “Government study” (2008)
There is no link to the referenced study.